Jen Do a 5 gal water change with the DT water so the water is what he is used to. Don't thank me yet, getting him in a trap well probably take some time and like I said the yellow tang well probably try to hog the trap and eat any food first. It may take a day or so to get him out. You can buy traps to that you run a string ouit of the tank and when you pull on it, a door drops, they aren't that costly and work easier, depends on the budget. Try to get a round mirror at a drugstore, say for a hand mirror and silicone it in, you well have to let it setup for a few hrs though. Good Luck and keep us posted. By the way a flame angel is probably a fish that ought to be kept in a older aged tank with stable water quality.
I can't believe it...got him with a net & no damage to my rocks! My son helped me & with a couple of nets & some patience we did manage to get him out. I did not see your post before I did the water change but I did do a 5 gal. water change & mixed DT water & new saltwater. I haven't used any chemicals in my tank since July of 2009 (the reef safe stuff..kich ich & ich attack) ..why would my water quality not be stable? I do my water changes & all my readings..ph,nitrate,ammonia, salinity..are always right on. Ya know what I can't figure out though...is in that small 10 gal. tank I notice the temperature changes pretty drastic with a water change. Didn't matter today...because I waited til it was up to same temp as my DT before I added him..but don't want to stress him out with the water temp fluctuating so much with how often i will have to do water changes during treatment...
Jen Its not only the water, but I met the tank too. The tank needs to be aged and that takes alot more time then just doing" the cycle". As you probably know the tank goes through alot of other cycles, brn algae, cyno and other issues before it stabilizes. Tearing the rock out last week and putting in buckets for however short a time is not letting the tank settle in. There is alot of bacteria and other things that take place other then just "the cycle". As for a ten gal. and temp swings, that is why I don't like them for a QT and in my opinion one needs atleast a 30 gal.. But for right now lets just stick with the 10, you have enough going on. Just make sure your room stays farely steady temp wise and that you have a heater laying in the tank. You well have to have your change water matched temp wise before adding. Were you able to get the Maracyn1 and 2? Make sure you have a ammon. and nitrite test kits, API is good and really easy to use and cheap. Another option is if you feel up to it, is to catch the fish and with a helper lay him on something and remove the fungus growth with say some flat tipped tweezers or scrape it off lightly with a knife tip. You well need someone to help hold the fish flat on its side, just make sure you have the Maracyn1 and 2 in the tank to keep an infection from getting in. That way you shouldn't need the Maroxy. Glad to hear you were able to catch him without tearing the tank apart again.
Well...I lost him.. :-( When I went to check on him part of his fin was gone..from the looks of some pictures I saw doing some research it looked like fin rot...and he was kinda hanging sideways not swimming... He didn't have any spots on his body or anything. I'm sure the stress of catching him yet again didn't help matters at all. Oh man..I just hate it.. I have the medicine for future on hand and I went ahead & bought the aquaclear you mentioned, a bigger heater & a 30 gal. for the future. Don't wanna be running around like a mad woman last minute. Want to have everything here on hand. Plus..I'm going to start putting EVERYTHING in QT when I start stocking again.. I understand what you are saying about tearing the rock down & stuff. I'll just let things settle & stabilize with what I have for now. Noticing the tang kinda rubbing against the side some & doing some real quick fluttering but can't see anything visible on her. Maybe I'm just paranoid now because I've noticed her flutter before. I heard tangs will do that even when they are fine. You think I should just keep a good eye on her for any visible signs? I sure hope I'm not in for more trouble! No..I didn't get Maracyn 1.. I guess I read your post wrong.. I got Maracyn Two & tried to get Maroxy but they don't carry it anymore so they gave us a different med to replace that..Seachem Sufathiazole. I haven't opened it yet...will I need that if I have both Maracyn 1 & 2? I will buy some of the Maracyn 1 to have on hand.
Sorry to hear about your loss... If Interested... check out the stickies here http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fis ... reatments/ The stickies are written by Lee Birch on Fish Diseases & Treatments - a bit about Lee below... I've been asked on more than few occasions about my background. I'll outline it here for those who are interested: TIME LINE 1960 My first freshwater aquarium; 1968 My first saltwater aquarium; 1969 to 1973 Ohio State Univ. 1973 to 1982 Working in Microbiological fields 1982 to current Working in metals fields - traveling around the world NOTEWORTHY FACTS RELATING TO MARINE FISH KEEPING In the early 1970's I conducted experiments and studies on Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) and ornamental fish diseases, the use of garlic, the use of antibiotics, the use of dips, acclimation procedures, and fish nutrition. I specialize in FOWLR system and FO systems. I have handled about 1700+ marine fishes and have learned a lot about their maladies and remedies through experience, necropsy (post mortem) exams, dissection, operations under anesthesia, care, and continued college education. I have attended a few extension courses provided to veterinarians on ornamental fish husbandry and continue to attend extension courses on marine fishes in captivity. I have degrees in Microbiology and Chemistry from OSU. I was partner of an LFS in Columbus, OH in the early '70's, imported fishes from The Philippines, and helped begin the net-catching practices (to help abolish cyanide collections) there. I often attend conventions and hobby activities around the world, including but not limited to InterZoo, and marine husbandry organization meetings. I try to share my knowledge and experience with others to help their fishkeeping practices and the curing of ill marine fishes. I do not publish for renumeration, but will write long posts and informational posts on the Internet. I don't make any money nor accept any money from the hobby in any way, including speaking engagements (although I do accept one meal sometimes), articles, posts, books, etc. I don't have any (financial or business) interest in any equipment, system, food, medication, or product used, sold, or made for the hobby. I do presentations at club meetings and functions but have never accepted anything other than a dinner for compensation. I avoid making any product recommendations or endorsements unless I think the product is one of a kind and of superior value and I have personally found does what I say it does. Currently I have a large system consisting of a 180, 300, 100, 150 sump, and a separate 70g QT. No pictures here on Reef Sanctuary, but photos can be found at: Lee's Marine System. My Internet name is leebca. My name is Lee Birch. (I go by my middle name -- my first name is William). :thumbs: You can Internet search my name too!
Sorry to hear about the Flame. I would hold off on getting another until the QT has cycled and aged for awhile and the DT has more age on it. Go slow for awhile. Flames are not a new tank type fish. I wouldn't worry about the yellow tang twitching and occasionally scraping, you most likely still have some ich issues, but as long as you keep the tank and water in shape, things should settle down. Most yellows twitch some, they are a hyper fish. I would take the sea chem product back and get the maracyn two for saltwater. It is the more important of the two as it is for gram neg. infections and that is more likely then gram pos., but it is best to treat with both so you don't have to try to figure it out. The great thing about the Maracyn products is that the M2 has vit B in it and is absorbed by the fish and well greatly help in sustaining the fish when he won't eat and it well make him want to eat. The other meds don't do this and I have found it GREATLY increases the chances of survival over any other meds on the market. I have never lost a fish to a bacterial infection using these products. I have over 30 yrs, used most and these 2 are the easiest and best working since coming on the market. We saved a large blonde naso that ibassfsh had get sick from a ich infestation and it contacted a bacterial infection and wasn't eating in QT with other meds and changed the water and added some of both of these and he started eating a few days later and is doing fine today, and that was months ago. Don't give up, let things settle down for several months and the QT cycle and then go slow and find out about the fish some before purchase and determine if you are ready and your tank is setup for it and what are their characteristics and how touchy they are. Good Luck
Sorry I went and reread your last post. The Maracyn 2 is the most important one, but still get some maracyn. You can get these alot cheaper at Drs Foster and Smith, the LFS really charge alot for these products locally. Remember also you can always lower the 30 down to say 20 if you have to treat and that well help in having to use less meds. Just buy from a really good source and make sure the fish is eating, ask for it to be fed, and that the tank it is being kept in good shape and looks good at the store, if not don't buy it. When you setup the QT just put a very small amount of 1/2 to 2 mm substrate in the bottom, say a 1/4", just enough to cover the glass and give a increased area for beneficial bacteria to grow. Get some fake ornaments used in fresh water tanks, that well give them somewhere to hide behind. Try not to use something with a hole in it such as pvc pipe as they well run and hide in it everytime you walk up to the tank and make it hard for them to see the food when you are trying to get them to start eating and the food just goes to the bottom and doesn't get eatin. a couple well do. The first time you use copper the substrate well suck up a little of it but just use a API copper test kit and redose for a few days and that well be the only time you well have to do that. Use "Copper Safe", also made by Mardell and it is very safe to use and won't come out of solution as it is a chelated form. Some fish don't do good with copper, mainly smooth skinned fish without scales and some butterflies, but the smooth skinned usally won't be a problem with ich and you shouldn't have a butterfly for along time and more experience. You can use a Poly Pad to suck the copper out when you want to take it out after treatment. Also the Maracyns and the copper can be used in unisyn. I would not use any meds unless needed, especially copper, even if a little ich shows up in QT, wait and see if it is getting worse or just kinda stays the same and starts to deminish. Glad to see another is converted to QTing. One other is to QT one thing at a time, unless of course you have an emergency.
Jen I'm curious, A few days ago you said he had a white fluffy ball area. Fin rot, usally the fin starts splitting and disappearing, quite different then a white ball. Maroxy treats fungus. There is true fungas, which is white and usally growing over a bacterial infection area where there was a scrape or sore. There is body fungas which is more grey and just kinda starts out usally around ther mouth area and spreads, and that is not a fungas, it is a bacterial infection and should be treated as such and Maroxy not needed, just the other two products. But fin rot is completely different. Anyway it sounds like he was weak from all the moving around and probably had a bacterial infection from it and the ich. Also just to file away for future reference, the fins can get a little greyish looking spot growing on one or two and usally they well go away on their own, as long as it doesn't start spreading too much and eating the fin away, I wouldn't yank the fish out of the DT, it well usally clear up in time.
Glenn..thanks for the info. I took a look at it. LOTS of information there! I think that is something I need to do...educate myself more on what to look for. I'm thinking now that probably the Flame had some splits & frayed on his fins & I didn't notice until after the white fluffy ball appeared. I was too busy looking for "white spots" on his body and not really examining the fins. Fisherman...yeah..the Flame did have a cottony white ball on his fin. Later after I put him in quarantine it was gone (wondered if it fell off when I netted him?) but I noticed part of his fin looked shorter..then later that night it was REALLY noticeable that his fin was way disappearing. I know he was put through a lot of stress...I mean..from the ocean to my tank, then to QT, back to my tank, and then back to QT. I'm sold on the QT though! I'm doing it from now on. There was nothing wrong with the body of the fish..no gray areas around the mouth, no ich spots...just the fin thing. I looked it over really good after it died. The one fin was almost gone..like real close to his body & the other side was frayed. I'm glad you mentioned about the PVC..because that is what i have in the QT. I did notice exactly what you said though..when I had that hippo in there & treating him He hid in that PVC all the time. I would have to pull it off for him to come out & eat. I do have some fake plants & stuff already for it though..I'll just pull out the PVC. I also have the brand you mentioned.."Copper Safe" That is what I treated the hippo with. He made a great recovery. Well...lessons learned..lessons learned. Hate that I learned the hard way...but..I guess I'm a little wiser because of it. Thanks for everyone's help! So far so good...my remaining Hawk, Clown pair, and Tang all look healthy. I sat & watched them & checked them out really good for probably an hour today! Jen Oh..but hey..while I've your attention.. any tricks for the clown taking to the anenome? My first pair were sooo cute living in it. (the ones I had waaaaay back before ich wiped out my whole tank) This pair I bought are tank raised..(the pair that the lady brought that gave the talk at the Reef Fest thing)... Anyhow..they haven't taken to it. They will hang out there every once in awhile but my other pair lived in it & took care of it..literally..fed it and everything. These 2 are pretty young as well. Maybe as they get older?
Jen It can take awhile for the clowns to host in the anemone and to be honest sometimes they never well, and who knows why. I would give them more time, I'm sure they well eventually. You well need to feed the anemone pieces of raw gulf caught shrimp, nothing raised in China, even if raw as it most likely has had a preservative put on it. Silver sides, large mysis, just make sure it is fresh and raw and hasn't been treated in anyway. Good luck and let things settle for a few months, get the QT cycled and resist the temptation to use it as another tank, that is the main reason some suggest against having one running, and medicating the house fish all the time when you have to use meds in the tank. Just add a few small flkes of food once a week and the bacteria well love you.
Jen it is really hard to tell by the picture, I can vagely see a spot, but not enough to determine anything is wrong or not. Sorry. Just keep an eye on him and as long as he eats good and doesn't look to be getting worse, I would probably just watch him. Keep us posted.
