Today my hippo tang has white spots on it's body. The yellow tang has a couple of white spots on it's fins. I don't see anything on the flaming angel but I did notice it rub against the rocks a few times yesterday. I don't see any spots on the hawkfish, or the clown pair. Should I take all the fish out & put them in quarantine or just the 2 tangs? I have an anenome, live rock, and crabs so can't treat the whole tank. I haven't had the live rock real long. I had fake corals & rocks before & have recently started moving into a reef tank. I can't catch the hippo...I"ve been trying for a LONG time now...so do I just take all the rock out & put it in water in order to catch it? This is my 3rd bout with this stuff. Last time left all the fish in quarantine for a month & left the tank empty with only the anenome. I'm at my wits end! Also I only have a 10 gallon quarantine as of now. Should I only take the infected ones out until I get a bigger one...or put them in there tonight & go get a bigger quarantine tommorrow?
I think I would catch them all and treat.. Make sure temp is constant with no fluctuations. Use tank water for quarantine tank. Good Luck
Sorry to hear... I fear of having to deal with it one day. I don't have a QT tank, but after I read the below posts, which are very highly regarded, I can see why a QT tank would be a good investment. The below posts are the best I have read on MI , but a painful time consuming answer. http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fis ... e-ich.html http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fis ... facts.html
there is no way you can treat all the fish in that size qt tank and if one has it they have all been exposed to it. so your choices as of now are to leave them in and suppliment their immune system and let them fight it off naturally with garlic extract and selcon or vitachem remove the anemone and corals and treat the fish with hypo(but this will kill any inverts that are left in the tank). this should be done for 6 weeks according to most sources. find someone with a big enough qt tank that can hold them for you until the tank is rid of ich. some say you cannot completely cure a tank of ich and others think you can. there are debates everywhere about it. there are also some parasitic foods that can help in some cases but for the most part any quick ich cures are worthless and not worth the money you will spend on them. cleaner wrasses and cleaner shrimp also arent much good for this so dont waste your time buying them in hopes they will fix the problem.
You cannot treat the whole tank in a 10 gal QT so you either have to get a bigger one, say atleast 30 gal. and be ready to do water changes so it doesn't try to cycle on you since you don't have a Qt setup and cycled. You can try hypo, but you well need a refractometer and make sure it is calibrated properly so you can get the salinity exact without hurting the animals. I am one that believes you can never clear a tank of ich completely, there is just to many circumstances that lets it live. How old is the tank??? If it is fairly new, it can not be aged enough for some of the more touchy fish. Hippo tangs are a huge! ich magnet. From what you said about the others I would say he is the main problem, as they have been known to be. Given your situation and circumstances I would get him out of the tank and return him or treat him in the QT and return him, give him away to a fellow reefer with a more established tank and up and running QT. If your water is in good shape and you are doing proper water changes and have good filtration and all the rest, the other fish you have well probably clear up on their own with time. What size is the tank???? You have quite a few fish and tangs need swimming room, especially with more then one. I would for sure stay away from these so called cures that won't harm the corals and such as I haven't heard of one that has actually cured anything and they can really screw up your tank. Garlic seems to have an effect according to some that has used it and it may help, I have tried it in the past and can't say for sure if it helped. If you do choose to try it I would get the KRYOLIC liquid at a food store also health store have it. Use it very sparingly as it can pollute the water. Most soak the food in a few drops of it first, and using pellets is the food of choice as frozen food is not going to absorb any as it is water logged already and flake well fall apart. Like stated above, I would get the hippo out and leave him out as they are prone to ich and the others well probably be fine in time without doing any thing other then making sure you tank ios in good shape. Keep us informed and good luck.
Here is a link that might help. http://www.chucksaddiction.com/ich.html http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/6/fish Hope this helped.
I can't really tell how old this email is. My computer ignorance, sorry. If this is January 2010 please contact me. When I brougt my Blue Hippo home a couple years ago he, of course, stressed and infected my 135 reef tank. I have a lot of live rock and it would be impossible to remove enough of anything to help. I treated my tank with Ich Out and everyone survived including all corals, inverts, etc. I have a "jug" two or three gallons that was never opened. Divemaster/Jolene 501-350-2613
Thank you all so much for your input. My husband is out of town & I have been stressing BAD about this. Last night I didn't have replies yet so I did the best I could & set up the quarantine tank, transferred over the cylcled water, broke down the WHOLE tank so I could catch the fish & put the live rock in buckets & kept them wet and put all the fish in the QT. I could not for the life of me catch the Hawkfish though even with everything out of the tank..so he's still in there. I know I can't keep them in there for long because it is so small. My plan was to go get a bigger one & transfer them. I have coppered the QT tank. BUT...after reading this it seems my best measure is to skip buying the bigger one & put them all back in except for the Hippo Tang. Fisherman..my tank is a 75 gallon. I have had it since May of 2009. A little history here...had it completely cycled & fully stocked with fish (with fish only tank) and then BAM..ich hit..or actually I think it might have been velvet because they ALL died QUICK. I'm talking within a couple of days they were all gone. I had put in a powder blue tang last. I went immediately & got the ich medicine that was supposed to be safe for inverts because I do have an anenome that the clowns were hosting. It did not work at all..not the least. I treated the full time too...even after all the fish died. I went through double the time the treatment said to ..I tried one brand...went through the full time. Then switched to another that was recommended & went through the full time it said. So...I start slowly restocking....and notice white spots. I immediately take them out & put in QT and coppered them. I left tank empty of fish for a month. That is what I was told to do from LFS to make sure it was irradicated from tank. So then I changed substrate from the crushed coral to the sand & added live rock instead of the fake corals because everyone said it was so much better for the fish... wait another month.. Then I recently added the flaming angel & hippo...a few days later..hippo covered in white spots & yellow tang with some. Sooo...I'm really really really at my wits end!! This has been so much harder than I thought & the money is adding up. My water tested perfect the day I bought the new fish. I had noticed a spot here & there on the yellow tangs fins but it would disappear within a day or 2 & everything seemed fine. I've looked them all over very closely in the small QT tank. The 0nly one that has spots is the hippo. I think there may be one or 2 small dots on the fins of the yellow tang but none on the body. Sooooooo...now that you have a little more history here.... is the consensus that the ich is gonna be in my tank no matter what? And I just need to keep out the bad ich hosts like hippos, powder blues? I guess what I"m wondering is...is it living in my tank regardless & my fish can naturally fight it off that have been in there? I don't see how I could do the hposalinity because I have an anenome, crabs, snails, & lots of live rock..wouldn't that even kill the good stuff on the live rock? I would have to have another huge tank & good lights to keep the rock & anenome doing well. Uggh!!! I wish I could just get it going & get some smooth sailing time in to enjoy it! Thank so much again for advice!! I'm going to keep them in QT with copper tonight & then wait to hear what the consensus is for my best route here & either put them all back in & take hippo back or get a bigger QT?????
Jolene....didn't see your post. . I wouldn't be opposed to trying another treatment method if you say it really worked. I used 2 other brands that did not work...Ich attack..and I believe kick ich? I don't think I could catch the hippo again though if I put him back in . I better leave him in QT for now & treat the main tank with that & & see how they do while I leave the hippo in the copper. Would hate to go through tearing it all down again...I was in tears by the time I finished last night! Going to leave them in copper for the night & make the plunge into a big decision tommorrow after reading everyone's suggestions & when I have my husband back here to help me. Jen
I'm sorry ...I have another question..hate to bug... But maybe I could do the hyposalinity...if I buy a say..30 gal tank..I think I might could keep my anenome, crabs, and snails in there & the live rock..not sure if all the rock will fit.. But if it does..could I hang these 2 long T-5 lights over it somehow ( of course it's much longer than a 30 gal) to keep all that stuff living well during this?
Jen To begin with the tank was setup in may 09 you say and it has been dosed and treated almost ever since, so basically it isn't aged at all. You have quite a few fish in it for a new tank, but the main issue is the hippo tang. As stated above I would keep it out until you become way more knowledgable as a reefer. Under ideal tank conditions and ability they can be chalanging. Either return it and let them treat him or do it yourself and then return him, but remember if you do it yourself you well have to do regular water chenges in the 10 gal every few days since it is bare and uncycled. Don't do anything to the main tank except put the other fish back in and I would do it tonight as all you are doing now is stressing them and gaining absolutly nothing for it. The ich is not going away overnight. ALL of us have ich in our tanks and if someone doesn't think they do, just let the tank conditions go south and they well soon find out. It makes a good barometer, kinda like the canary in a coal mine. You say in your post that everytime you add the hippo ich shows up on him bad and that isn't unusual as they are magnets to it along with other certain tangs and some other fish. For such a young tank and one that has been screwed up for so long with ich and dosing chems in it a hippo ought not to be even a consideration. To be blunt, you need to slow down with the fish adding and get things running even keel in the tank and do alot of reading and learning, There are certain fish that are not easly kept and you need to find out about any new addition in the future and their requirements. Even when the tank is considered aged and steady a QT up and running and cycled is a must if you must have certain fish, not having one is just asking for what you are going through now. Sure some well say they never have had to use a QT, and maybe they got lucky, but as you found out it only takes one wrong move and everything is wiped out, it just ain't worth the few dollars it takes to setup a QT in the loss of years to your life and most of all the death of these creatures we remove from their habitat. Get the main tank back together and the fish back in it minus the hippo and DON'T add anymore chems to it and just keep the water chenged and I well bet that the others well do fine. Keep us informed.
I do not think that all tanks have ICH as ICH is a parasite, but if you do not treat all the fish and all new additions its like trying to get rid of the fleas on your dog, you treat him and get rid of the fleas and treat his bed, and the house and they are all gone, than you get a new dog or a use pet bed and dont treat them and all the dogs get fleas from him or it and the cycle starts all over again. If you let the DT sit for at a minimum of 6 weeks while you treat ALL the fish until they have been ICH free for six weeks at least, after you see the last outbreak. You can eradicate the ICH in your tank. It can be re-infected with any thing new you put in you tank(LR, SAND, or any thing that a ICH parasite can cling on to. IMO that is why most hobbyist think all tanks have ICH you have to be vigilant not to add any thing with out QTing it first. Corals, LR, LS, Snails, crabs, shrimp or any non-fish for at least six weeks in QT with out fish, as the ICH parasite has to have a fish to reproduce. IMO it is better to QT all new fish and treat with HYPOSALINTY or copper witch ever you prefer to use, to kill any ICH that the new fish might have. The ICH parasite can come in on any new arrival. So if you get rid of it. Than add a new fish that is infected than it starts all over. This article tells all about the ICH parasite and how to kill it and keep it out. http://www.chucksaddiction.com/ich.html
Ok... Fisherman....I took your advice. I put all my fish back in the main tank minus the hippo. I treated the Hippo with copper this week in QT & took him back to my LFS today. He looked healthy with no white spots. My other fish are doing fine so far in the main tank. I've been watching them closely. I asked about supplements for their immune system while I was there. They recommended the same things that you mentioned, ScrewLoose... The garlic, selcon, and the seachem vitality.. I am soaking their food in it now. They did say a lot of people have good luck with boosting the fish's immune systems. meco65.....I think I should follow your advice on the QT going forward. I do have one..but only used it for treating sick fish..never before putting in the main tank. My question is..how do I keep it "up & running" all time. I read in that article that you posted the link to...that you can put the sponge from the filter in your sump pump to keep a biological filter going. Is that what you are talking about? Then it's ready to pull out & use in the QT? Thanks for all the advice everyone. I seem to be okay now. I'm going to feed with the supplemented food & give it awhile to stabilize before adding anything new. Thanks again! So far so good! Will post again if things change. Jen
Jen You want to be careful with the soaking of the food. These vitamins and so forth can get your tank out of wack easly. I wouldn't use them unless you see a problem and then very sparingly. The main thing that well help your fish is to have the tank and water in good shape. All these items add to the bio load on the tank. With the hippo out of there you should be fine, and it sounds like things are. Basically with all the disturbance this tank has been through you have a new tank so I wouldn't be looking to add anything for quite a few months. There are lots of ideas on running a QT tank, I have a 30 gal. that is up and running all the time, no fish unless I have a new purchase or a sick fish. I just drop a few flakes of food in it every now and then and that keeps the bacteria fed. You can do it that way, you can do the sponge filter thing, or you can just set it up when needed and check the amon. levelsa and do water changes, it kinda depends on what you want to do. I like having it up and running always then I don't have to worry about it being ready incase I need it or someone else does. The size of the QT depends on the size of the DT and size of the fish you well be QTing. Again be careful feeding these supplements. Nice to hear things are working out, go slow.
JoeB, The best remedy is "Kick Ich" by Ruby Reef. I have had to use it one time. This product is sold as reef safe and in my experience, it is. It works and you don't have to break down your tank, catch fish, quarantine fish, etc....... In my opinion, it is the only way to go. Follow instructions on the back. Sharla
i have used the ruby reef products before in the past and they did nothing for the situation for me that i could tell. they may have helped some but it was not enough to notice. i did however lose some acro frags to it so it is not completely reef safe in my experience. it is also pretty costly if i remember right. if it were me i wouldnt worry about quick cures, i would go with the long term fixes. if it worked good for sharla then thats good news, but my experience was completely opposite.
Sharla..tried the Kick Ich before and it still wiped out every fish. Not sure why it didn't work for me...but it didn't. Thanks tho. Okay...today..the flaming angel has a big white furry blob between her fin & her body. It's right where it connects to her body. She is not using it to swim with,but just leaves it open (looks like she is unable to close it anyway because of this stuf) & is only using one fin to swim. No white spots on her body...does that still sound like ich? She is the newest addition..got her same day as the hippo. The other fish seem fine for now..but don't want this to spread. Looks like I'm gonna have to QT. Again I have a yellow tang, a clown pair, and a hawkfish besides the flaming angel. I only have the 10 gal. QT as stated before...so gonna have to go buy a 30 gal. if I have to leave the DT fish free for 6 weeks. Oh my word..this has become so hard! I will never put a thing in there without quaranting them before again! Man..I have learned the hard way! I only have one of those bubble sponges for this 10 gal. QT. It looks like a triangular sponge that sits on the bottom with a bubble hose coming up. Guess I should get something bigger & better since they will be in there for 6 weeks? Any recommendations before I head out to buy?
Jen If it looks like cotton, is white, it probably is a fungas. Maroxy by Mardell [NSA should have]is a very good product, just be sure to use as directed, as it is oxygenated chlorine. I wouldn't go buy a 30 gal just now. Do you have a aquarium air pump to drive the sponge filter?, if not you need to get one. Set the 10 gal up and use the sponge filter, it isn't going to provide any amonnia or nitrite protection, but well help with the filtration. You are going to have to do water changes in the QT to keep things in check, and well have to redose for the amount of water you change out. Just incase it is a bacterial growth you could do Maracyn2 and Maracyn first, need to have some on hand anyway. Make sure the Maracyn is for saltwater as they have vit. B and the fresh don't and the B well really help. It is alot easier to dose and less stressful on the fish and the growth could be bacterial, and even if it is fungas, that is usally a second reaction to a bacterial infection. If you don't see a improvement in a week then you can add the Maroxy also. You well need to catch the flame angel, either with a trap or with a couple large nets and corner him, might have to remove some rock temporaly, a fish trap is best, as you don't have to disturb your rock work. You can make one with a quart Ball canning jar. Silicone a mirror in the bottom and when a fish see's himself he well go in to do battle and just cover the open end with a net and remove together, also you can add some food. If the yellow tang hogs it, which he probably well, remove him to the QT until you get the flame in the trap, then return the yellow tang to the DT. You only need to treat the flame. The meds cost so wait on the 30 gal QT for now as it well need to cycle anyway and you only need to do the flame now. You well need a heater also, if you have to buy one get a 100 watt and you can use it in the 30 in the future. It is a hard way to learn of the need for a up and running QT, but sounds like you have, and we have all been there. When things smooth out get a 30 and a hang on the back box filter [Aqua Clear] and heater and thermometer and your good to go, you well have to let it cycle. I like to have one up and running because most meds effect, especially copper, the bio filter and a sponge filter from the sump usally well not be enough good bacteria to keep the bio filter strong enough. Add some artifical ornaments for a freshwater setup and you well be good to go.
Yes..I do have an air pump driving the sponge filter & I do have a heater as well. It is already set up because I just took the hippo out yesterday & took him back. I need to do a partial water change I'm sure before I put the flame angel in there..I will do that now. YES...it does look as you describe. It is white & looks like cotton. It is not a small dot but rather a clump of fluffy white. No white dots on the body. Thank you for your response. Also the tip on the fish trap. I was SOOOO NOT looking forward to having to tear down all my rock again. I will get him in QT & get those meds you mentioned. Will keep you posted! Thanks so much! Jen
