do you give a fresh water bath or do you treat w/ some chemical one that is reef safe like kick ick or no ich or what i need some guidance please :cry: im starting to get bummed out.
You should never medicate your main tank. Use a separate tank. Ich is easy to get rid of if you follow the proven methods. I found invaluable ich info at www.wetwebmedia.com. That is a wonderful site. We also have a couple of threads here discussing Ich. To search our site using Google: site:razorbackreef.org <search term>
You will get a lot of disagreement on Ich amongst various people. I follow the Wetwebmedia advice which includes using copper to treat ich. The bad part is you can't use copper in your reef. The other bad part is they say to treat all of the fish in an infected tank, even those not showing diseaset. So there are a lot of decisions for you to make in how you want to go about this. From my reading the first round of Ich is not the worst. The white spots show, then the cysts fall off the fish, the reproduce and come back 200 fold. I recently treated a fish with Ich. I bought a little starter 10 gallon kit and put him in there with some Mardel Coppersafe. I did about 3 gallon water changes every few days and put in enough copper to keep the concentration right. I did not use a test kit, was just careful to put the right amount in with every water change. I kept him in there for two weeks and then another three weeks to ensure it didn't come back. If you have more fish you would need a bigger hospital tank. Tell us more about your situation. James
well i just recently about a month and half ago set up a 55 gallon fowlr tank w/ 40 lbs of live rock and 40 lbs of fiji pink my buddy gave me a porcupine puffer fish beautiful specimen about 3 1/2 " he told me when I put him in a new tank he would probably stress out and puff he did he also told me he would more then likely get ick due to the stress he was so dead on accurate its scary but any way i havent had to deal w/ ick in a long time last time it was on a damsel i used ick away it is for reef tanks and will not hurt you biological filtration now my lfs sold me another kind called kick ich also not supposed to mess up your biological filtration. i know your not supposed to treat your main tank im gonna go buy a 10 gallon starter kit and try what you suggested you know anything about fresh water dips or hyposalinity
Puffers are one of the fish that don't tolerate copper according to Wetwebmedia. I have read about freshwater dips but have never done one. Maybe one of the other members can chime in here.
Try to PM our Triton Aquatics guru. He seems to have a lot of experience in treating sick fish. You can find him in the member list. I have been reading a bit on puffers and ich. Folks lean toward hypo for them. Here is a link on hypo. To do it right you need a refractometer to measure the salinity. http://petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jo ... inity.html This is the wetwebmedia puffer disease faq...one of them anyway. Read away. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/puffdisfaq6.htm So is your fish still eating well?
yeah i talked to bobby earlier today aka triton aquatics i went and saw him me and him came up w/ fresh water dips and the hypo and i was there so i bought the kick ich but i dunno we will see in a week or so what happens those additives i just like to call them all prayers in a bottle if you know what i meen but thanks for your help i will let you all know what happens hopefully for the better though
i lowered my ph to 1.024 im gonna keep doing it slowly over the next few days and get it around 1.015 more of a brackish water and then when hopefully he pulls through i will raise it gradually back up but w/o this tool is certainly hopefully gonna save my bacon has before come on trusty steed do it again
I wish you luck. Let us know how the hypo treatment goes. Treating ich is a slow process any way you go about it. You will need to take the SG lower to kill the ich, 1.010 or so. That hypo link above is pretty good. Just try to keep your little buddy eating. My fish lost his appetite for a few days during the worst of the Ich. That is the worrisome time.
i lowered it again today to 1.019 im just gonna keep gradually lowering it and see how it works then slowly raise it back up & try not to stress the fish anymore then it already is i feel so sorry for this puffer he is clumsy my powerhead the sponge deal fell off and he got his eye sucked into that last night and he was puffed up and mad i let him down now he swam away then i fed him he ate he was kinda p.o. but ok now his eye is cloudy it seems to be going away though he looked like he got in a bar fight but now he is looking better but i treated the tank along w/ lowering the salinity i put kick ich in and it seems to be helping some of the ich has fallen off of him but i will keep in touch and let everyone know thanks for looking travis
I think you are suppose to leave it at that level for 3 to 4 weeks. The ich burrows into the fish and is safe from the hypo until they come out to complete their lifecycle and reproduce.
From: http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevo ... inity.html Hyposalinity is a very effective treatment for parasitic conditions such as Marine "Ich" (Cryptocaryon irritans.) and can also be used to lower stress in fish. What is Hyposalinity? Hyposalinity is adjusting the salinity of the water to somewhat less the that of natural sea water. "Hypo" comes from Greek and means under or below. For the treatment to be effective the salinity needs to be lowered to 12-14‰ which is equivalent to a specific gravity of 1.009 (d20/20) at normal tank temperatures (26-28°C - 79-82°F). Normal sea water has a salinity of 35‰ (Gross, 1977). How does it work? For the treatment of "Ich", hyposalinity works by breaking the life cycle of the parasite. The lower salinity may also reduce stress, although there is no hard evidence to date to support this. C. irritans is a ciliate protozoan found in sea water and it has a number of stages in its life cycle. Infective stages burrow into the skin and gills of the fish and form a protective outer covering of skin. Here they feed on tissue fluids and skin and grow. When mature, the parasite breaks out of the cyst and after some time as a free-swimming form encysts on any suitable substrate such as the sand or rocks and divides many times to produce the infective forms (Colorni, 1987). The infective forms must find a suitable host or they will die. The total time from the mature parasite detatching from the fish and reinfection of the fish is about 2 weeks at normal tank temperatures. This is why "Ich" may appear to clear up but then comes back a a week or so later but a lot worse. The low salinity causes the most of the tomonts to rupture, killing them Marine teleost fish (higher bony fishes) maintain their osmotic concentration at about one quarter to one third that of sea water. In normal sea water, these fish have a tendency to lose water from their gills due to osmosis and also in their urine. Fish have to drink a lot of water to make up for the loss, however, as the water contains a lot of salt (35‰) they must remove the excess salt from their system. The sodium and chloride ions are secreted by the gills and magnesium and sulphates are excreted in urine. This is an active process and requires energy much like the energy required to keep warm blooded animals warm. When fish are under stress, one of the processes that is affected is ion regulation. This means they have difficulty adjusting the concentration of ions (sodium, chloride, etc.). Lowering the salinity of the tank water makes the concentration of ions closer to that of the fish"s internal fluids and reduces the fish"s efforts to maintain the correct concentrations. Please note that only the higher bony fishes have lower osmotic concentrations and can be treated this way. Marine invertebrates have the same osmotic concentration as the surrounding water (Schmidt-Nielsen, 1975) and if left in the aquarium during hyposalinity treatment are most likely to die due to osmotic shock. Sharks and rays may not survive hyposalinity due to their unique method of osmoregulation. They have similar concentrations of salts to that of marine teleosts (one quarter to one third that of sea water), however, they also have very high concentrations of organic compounds which gives their internal fluids the same osmotic concentration as sea water. While some can adjust to lower salinities, most will succumb to osmotic shock just like invertebrates. How do you treat? It is very important that you can accurately measure the salinity or specific gravity of the water. Cheap hydrometers, especially the swinging arm variety, do not have enough accuracy. If the salinity is too low, it is possible the health of the fish will be compromised. If the salinity is too high, it may have no affect on the parasites, as discussed above. A refractometer is the safest method for measuring salinity. If you don't have access to a refractometer, a lab grade floating glass hydrometer should suffice. The goal is to granularly reduce the salinity of the water to between 12 and 14‰ and leave it at that salinity for at least 4 weeks but preferably 6 weeks. Basically continue the treatment for at least 4 weeks after the last spots disappeared. The salinity must be lowered gradually to give the fish time to adjust to the lower salinity and more importantly ensures the bacteria in the biological filter can adjust. It should take around 2 days to get from 35‰ to 14‰. Your starting point should be between 1.025 and 1.027. Replace about one fifth of the volume with RO, RO/DI or aged freshwater that has been well aerated. Repeat this 12, 24 and 36 hours later, monitoring the specific gravity along the way. After the fourth water change the specific gravity should be 1.010 or pretty close. Wait a few hours to make the final adjustment to get down to 1.009. Note that you can estimate the resulting specific gravity. If you are changing one fifth of the water and the current specific gravity is 1.025 the result will be: ((1.025*4)+1.000)/5 = 1.020 approx. Then, after 12 hours: ((1.020*4)+1.000)/5 = 1.016 approx. After 24 hours: ((1.016*4)+1.000)/5 = 1.013 approx. After the 4th change: ((1.013*4)+1.000)/5 = 1.010 approx. Water temperature influences specific gravity and if you heat water without changing the salinity the specific gravity will decrease. As the goal is to keep the salinity between 12 and 14‰ it is important to know the temperature as well as the specific gravity. What temperature should you use? Some people have argued that raising the temperature is good because it speeds up the life cycle of the parasite. While this is true, the elevated temperature also raises the metabolic rate of the fish causing increased oxygen and energy consumption and somewhat negating the benefits of the hyposalinity. Temperatures close to "normal", those the fish are used to, will be the best. Ensure the temperature is taken into consideration for the specific gravity. While the fish are being treated it is extremely important to closely monitor the pH and specific gravity. Unless you are treating in a well established tank with an established biological filter there will be a tendency for the pH to drop and this must be monitored. This can also happen in an establish tank due to the lower salinity. If the pH starts to drop, water should be changed or buffer very carefully added to the system. If the fish are sick, too rapid changes in pH will not be beneficial. The specific gravity also must be monitored as excessive evaporation will cause the salinity to rise and possibly create suitable conditions for the free swimming parasite. If the salinity does rise, it may be necessary to extend the length of the treatment after the salinity has been lowered again. Hyposalinity should be maintained for at least 4 weeks but 6 weeks is preferable. If there is any reinfection of the "Ich" during the treatment, the treatment should be extended to at least 4 weeks after the disappearance of the last cyst. When the treatment is complete, the salinity should be raised gradually to normal over a number of days. Water changes with normal or even high salinity water is the easiest way to get the salinity up. Calculations using averages, as before, can be used to determine the appropriate specific gravity of the replacement water. If you replace one sixth of the 1.009 water with water at 1.025, the specific gravity will be raised to 1.012: ((1.009*5)+1.025)/6 = 1.012 approx. As the salinity approaches normal it will be necessary to either replace more water in each change or use water with a higher than normal salinity. If you have been treating in a quarantine tank, you will need to leave the display tank with no fish in it for at least 30 days. This will ensures that all remaining parasites in the tank have gone through their full life cycle and the infective forms have died. If you have been treating in the display tank, you should wait some time before returning any invertebrates or live rock to ensure that the biological filter has had time to adjust to the salinity and load. Summary * Isolate the fish from any invertebrates or sharks and rays * Lower the salinity to 12-14‰ (specific gravity: 1.009 @ 27°C) over a 72 hour period * Closely monitor the pH and specific gravity * Do regular water changes with low salinity water * Keep the salinity at 12-14‰ (specific gravity: 1.009 @ 27°C) for 4-6 weeks, or at least 4 weeks after the last disappearance of the "Ich". * Raise the salinity to normal over a 3-7 day period. * Leave an untreated display tank fishless for at least 30 days. Disclaimer This information is presented in good faith to assist aquarists in the treatment of "Ich" and other conditions in their fish. The author accepts no responsibility for loss due to the use or misuse of the information. References Colorni A. 1987. Biology of Cryptocaryon irritans and strategies for its control. Aquaculture 67(1-2):236-237. Gross, M. G. 1972. Oceanography: A View of the Earth. Prentice-Hall, Inc., Englewood, NJ, USA. 497pp. Schmidt-Nielsen, K. 1975. Animal Physiology: Adaptation and Environment. Cambridge University Press, London, UK. 699pp. Dose anyone Read any more? lol jest kidding travis. lots of luck!
Here's a thread hosted by Kelly Jedlicki, a fish disease expert: http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic31173-10-1.aspx
