Anybody know whats going on with my tank ?

Hello. In mid June I started a 16 gallon bowfront saltwater tank. I started with 30 pounds of live sand and about 20 pounds of base rock. I had a crappy sea-clone 150 skimmer and a penguin 150 hang on filter. I let it run for about 3 or 4 weeks and then I put a hermit crab, turbo snail, and a pepermint shrimp in. Everything was great. Clear water and healthy animals. Then in mid August I aquired a 29 gallon tank and I moved everything into the new tank and added new water and another 30 pounds of coral base rock. After a week of smooth sailing I added two damsels. Well around the 1st of September I saw the hermet crab munching on the carcass of one of the damsels and the other one was nowhere to be found. and for the past week and a half my water has looked like this. I did a 5 gallon water change with no improvement. The water is just really cloudy and looks like crap. I switched the skimmer from the sea clone to one that just uses a wooden airstone and I put an internal polishing filter in the tank to try and remove the cloudiness. But I still have an ugly looking tank. Anybody know what is going on ?

 

I think you need to add some stuff called "Cycle" to your tank. Your enzymes are out of balance causing an algae bloom of sorts. You should be able to get this stuff at local LFS or a Petco/Petsmart.

I think there is some other stuff called Bio-Zyme also that may help this. I think another member 6mmedic just recently had this same issue with his newly started 120 gallon tank.

 

If you live in central AR I have some cycle that you can have to try if you want it. Have you put any live rock in the tank or just base rock.

 

My guess is you are 30 days into a new tank... and this is normal tank progression - usual algae bloom that occur in a natural algae bloom cycle 30 days into a new tank this seems about right...

The real key is to figure out exactly where you are in your cycle. Get a test kit & test for Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates

Ammonia > Nitrite > Nitrate - Once the nitrites are gone, then do water changes to reduce nitrates.

If your tank has cycled to the point where Ammonia = 0 & Nitrite = 0 (which if the damsel died, by now I would guess it is getting close to finishing the cycle, the damsel having kick started the ammonia cycle)

you may be ready for water changes to reduce nitrates - the first water change can be up to 40%, then I would suggest 10-15% weekly.

also make sure you are using ro/di swt... also make sure your carbon is fresh & better yet... if you can... try some purigen & some chemi pure elite (or equivalent gfo)

hope something here helps...

 

I have never had a new tank have water turn green like that. I think you need more bacteria in your system is why I suggested what I did above. There have been two tanks this week or two that have used dead or base rock to start up with no "live" live rock. Both tanks seem to have had this bloom. 66medic tried the above and stated to me it seemed to clear it up pretty quick. Maybe he will chime in on this thread here shortly and let us know of his experience with it.

 

I am just guessing & trying to help too... many in our club & on this forum know a lot more than I.

So take my advise for whatever you deem it worth

Regarding starting a new cycle, you sure do need something to kick start it if you used only base rock, I often suggest a deli shrimp from krogers

old school ... some suggest using a live fish, usually damsels, which often end up dieing... in this case a damsel was in the tank & died, decayed to the point the hermit crab was munching on the carcass, thus my thinking... an ammonia source was introduced.

Water changes & using ro/di swt... seemed like a good starting point in my mind .... but after getting a test kit & testing for Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates

I never mind trying to help anyone... but I will end this post the same way I started it - I am taking an educated guess (my swt knowledge) & trying to help... many in our club & on this forum know a lot more than I.

On offence taken on my part... if anyone disagrees with anything I share, in fact, I welcome it & appericate it, as I am always learning !

 

I wasn't trying to belittle what you stated Nano, I was just personally saying I have never seen a tank do that in all of the years I have been in the hobby. I am not all knowing either. I have always used cured live rock also in all of my setups. Never any baserock. I do not know if its a new cycle or not, I just believe his enzymes or bacteria is out of balance.

The products I stated above should help if its what I think it is, but may not if its something different. My personal opinion is that with all of the new products on the market (live sand, Cycle, Bio-zyme) one does not have to use raw shrimp, damsels, or even urine to seed a tank with bacteria.

Your right on alot of stuff, and may be right on this too. I am not slamming you just sharing my experience on what I see going on in Peckerneck's tank. Its guess work on my part also.

I also think his problems are stemming from the 2nd batch of base rock he put it. He stated all was well for 3-4 weeks. If he used live sand (seeded with good bacteria) he should have been almost through his cycle stages. Then he added another 30 pounds of base rock. It added a large bio load to a new set up with the base rock and over loaded the good bacteria with bad bacteria.

 

Here is my 2 cents worth. It definitly looks like a algae bloom. There is alot of info missing from your info. You don't mention anywhere that you did any checking for ammon., then into the nitrite cycle, then the nitrate cycle. When the damsel died what was the ammon. or the nitrite levels? What are the current levels of all three??? ammon., nitrite, nitrate??? Before adding chems to the system I would find out the above parims first. I'm not sure the cycle process has anything to do with your issue. There is a new tank syndrome that happens, but it is usally dinoflagellates which causes a brown algae issue, not green water. IMO it is hard to figure out exeactly what is causing the green water. It could have been over feeding, adding chems or any number of things, it doesn't take much to get algae going and the green water is a high number of algae SPORES in the water column. I don't think using base rock verses live rock is an issue, after all in the days before live rock we didn't have this problem. It has more to do with what caused this algae spore outbreak and that can be a guess forever. Personally if it was my tank I would do the 3 test and see where my tank was and I would do water changes and keep doing them, say 5 gals every other day. Until I knew where my cycle was by the 3 readings I would NOT add anymore chems to the tank. I don't have an answer to what caused the spore outbreak, but that is what you have and Adding more chems can cause more troubles. Do the above test with good kits or have your water tested and post the results. If I was to guess I would say you ammon. levels are sky high.

 

I didn't take it that way... at all

You & fishermann, along with many others, have forgot more than I have ever learned related to swt !

I appericated everyone's post here & I am always learning.... plus if I suggest something that will hurt anyone's tank, I would hope someone would post a counter opinion - wisdom comes from many counselors


One of the good things about the forum is being able to ask questions and draw on the wisdom of the members... keep all the post coming - I always enjoy reading everyone of them & learning too !

 

Im here!!! LOL I did start my tank with mainly bast/dead rock and had it set up for a few weeks before a large bacteria source was established and had a similar problem. The rock I got used to be in a tank and had been removed and allowed to dry. I think it still had a small amount of bacteria on it due to the smell. As the tanks sat even with filters and a skimmer it got nasty!! Turned green and I could clean glass 5 times a day if I wanted.
I usually dont believe in bottled or packaged bacteria sources but Petco was closing out on Nutrafin Cycle and I bought two bottles. After adding the first dose the tank cleared in hours. I was shocked. I did the other two doses as instructed. Last week i added 15lbs of Bali Alor from Premiere Aquatics and 2 damsels. Tanks going great and my ammonia is 1-2 right now so the cycle is definately there.
Point is beneficial bacteria must come from somewhere. Live rock in my opinion is the best source and if you can only afford 10lbs then get 10lbs but get some. This bottled stuff my work for a bit but i bet it wont last. Do some live rock and get test kits. As said above test kits are your window to whats going on in your tank. Read up on the cucle process and what to look for on here and after the cycle reintroduce fish slowly and the rest is....well just as complicated and expensive!!!! LOL
Ralph let me know what the status is on your project

 

First of all... Thanks to everyone for your input. You have all given me some very good avenues to go down. I have tested my water and I was going to test it again today and post the levels but for the life of me I can't find my test kit. I'll have to pick up another at petco today.

I think 6mmedic has hit on something. My base rock was used in a tank I had a few years ago and has been in a storage closet in Virginia wrapped up in a plastic bag for 2 and a half years and when I opened it up the smell was like that of an abandoned fish market. I rinsed it and soaked it and rinsed it again before I introduced it to the tank though and the small was pretty much gone.

Just a note. The water is not green at all. It does look green in the photo. I blame that on my mediocre skills as a cell phone photographer and the fact that the window to the right of the tank has green drapes and there was probably a bit of that reflecting into the tank. So the water is clean but cloudy.

I did have brown algae bloom that coated everything just prior to everything going bad. The algae disappeared shortly after I did the water change.

Anyway ! I'm gonna head out to see what kind of cycling products I can find. I will post updates.

Thanks again for all the info !

 

You may want to look into a better HOB skimmer also. Aqua-C makes the Remora, and CPR back pack is a pretty decent skimmer for that size tank for the money. They always have used ones on ReefCentral you can pick up cheaper than a new one. Possibly a canister filter such as Eheims or Fluval to run just GFO and carbon. I would not use any of the ceramic media as it will more than likely create nitrates for you.

The carbon and GFO should be changed every few months. This will give you more current/flow also in your tank with out power heads.

 

just some more thoughts... after reading your latest post...

I cycled my tank with uncured live rock by choice, it was fresh from ocean & had plenty of die off... help establish a nice start to my cycle an produce a good quality bateria build up over about 6 weeks.

Test first for for sure ....

fishermann - "I would say you ammon. levels are sky high."

this guess... sounds more right on, than ever to me now...

If this is the case... all progressing well & the nitrites should be soaring soon... I suggest starting the water changes... after the ammonia & nitrites are at zero...

any way - good luck - test & post back the results !

 

After reading your reply I would bet money your ammon or nitrites are sky high, probably ammon. You put in uncured live rock or dead rock, whatever you want to call it. Rinsing it off doesn't make it cured, It sounds like your water is cloudy because of the die off that is taking place from this stored rock. You need more then a kit, you well need all THREE kits, there is no round about way of doing a tank, all that well happen not doing it right well be to give you alot of stress and kill alot of animals. Even after your tank has cycled it well be awhile before you can add much more to it. I don't want to sound mean, but it sounds like you need to take the time to do some reading on this hobby.

 

Take your water to NSA if you are able. They will tell you what's out of balance.

What kind of water do you use? Tap or RO? IMO, your "dead fish market" rock caused a problem. I would start by doing a 50%-75% water change. Make sure you use good RO or de-ionized water.

Dead damsel wow.. I bought two damsels about a week after setting up my tank to help it cycle. I didn't think you could kill them.

donut

 

I think you're right. I'm pretty sure its the rock. My amonia is off the charts. I did an 80% water change and added some biozyme. I think I'm on the right track now.

 

I always suggest water changes to reduce nitrates and suggest not doing any water changes until the ammonia & nitrites are at zero?

What's everyone's opinion on this... water changes while the tank is cycling, is this a good idea or do you wait it out?

Then do water changes to reduce nitrates...

I am still learning too, maybe more than one way to cycle a tank... I didn't do water changes until my ammonia & nitrites were are at zero...

not sure about the biozyme - maybe this changes how you cycle a tank.... ???

 

I always just wait it out. Let it cycle naturally and it will stabalize in a very short time. It takes a while to create the kind of bacteria bed you need to sustain a closed system like an aquarium reef tank. There have been many a heated debate on this forum about how to cycle a tank. Most of the problems arise when it is done too fast with chemicals, additives, pure amonia, bodily fluids, etc. Just let it cycle in it's own good time and you will have a healthy stable system that dosen't depend on chemicals to stay in balance. I'm real old school. If you start with dry rock and new substrate, fill it up and let it run for a few days. Have you ever filled up a container of water and felt the inside of it.? After a couple days there is a slick film on the sides, and everything in the container. This is necessary as a base for the bacteria to adhere to. Then add a piece of shrimp, silverside, or just feed it a small amound and let it work. Today there is a great way to start. If you have access to some real live rock, from a friends established tank, never let it sit out of water, and a few cups of substrate from a couple of friends tanks, you're off to a very good start. Again, let it alone and let it cycle on it's own....Clear.....brown phase.....green phase....and presto, a cycled tank. You have waited a couple months for years of mostly trouble free reefing. Thats my two cents worth. I would be happy to discuss it with anyone if you like.

 

As I stated earlier, adding the storage rock was adding uncured rock live or otherwise, so you are going through another cycle and the die off from the rock is what is clouding the water. Do as Norman suggested and let it run its course and that well be numerous weeks down the road. You are in the ammon faze now and then you well have to go through the nitrite faze and even then you can't just go adding alot or you well start the cycle all over again. Go SLOW and let it run its course. Add acouple pieces of flake food every three days or so to feed the bacteria, it only takes a couple samall pieces. You probably have enough die off from the rock to where you don't need to add any shrimp or other solid pieces. And quit adding biozyme and such, just be patient and let it run its course and you well have a strong tank naturally. I have yet to see any miracle ways that work good in the long run. And most important do some reading because it just gets more complicated when other issues start coming along. Don't mean to sound negative, but there is alot more to this then just buying a galss bowl and adding some water. Until the cycle runs its course it won't do anygood to do water changes, so just let it do its thing and establish a strong bacteria colony.